true/false
Time to spill. Leave your guilty secrets in the comments. Be sure to choose the anonymous option. If there are enough comments, I'll leave (anonymously, of course) a few tasty confessions of my own.
And here's the twist: while true confessions are, as always, welcome, this month you should feel free to also add confessions that are, shall we say, something less than entirely accurate.
If you decide to leave a not-quite-true confession, make it as over the top as you'd like, but try to add at least a thin veneer of plausibility. I'm curious to see if anyone can tell the difference.
Ready...set....go
256 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 256 of 256I just wanted to let everyone know that its not uncommon in Europe to remain in the hospital for multiple days. For instance, in Switzerland there is a mandatory 7 days hospitalization after a c-section, and a mandatory 5 day hospitalization after a natural, vaginal birth.
@1:05,
I don't think infection can be faulted, as much as I am a fan of worrying about those. Bacteria do not kill by magic. They kill by sepsis, something extremely hard to miss on an autopsy. Metabolic diseases are a possibility, but they too tend to leave biochemical signatures.
Keeping someone for observation would, I assume, involve actually observing them. Having the baby on monitors, for example. Or, at the very minimum, coming into the room to check on them more often than once every 5 hours, no? This is what's fishy about the extended hospital stay to me-- in that country it's common to go home the day you give birth. They have an institution of home care nurses that come to your house for several hours a day for at least a week after. In her telling, in the hospital they were essentially left alone in the room to fend for themselves. That doesn't seem consistent with either being kept for observation, or with the country's health care system.
That there are many in this community of babylost mamas questioning seems like a huge red flag. We read babyloss stories all the time. Think of it this way, if you found out that people were uncomfortable with elements of your story--people in this community, caring, loving, grieving, vulnerable people...not malicious angry uncompassionate people--wouldn't you want to answer their questions? Wouldn't you want to put them at ease? Don't you think these women have been through enough, and would want them to know their trust is not misplaces?
They threatened someone who questioned them. Why? What are they hiding that they would spit at, or heaven forbid, threaten a doubter?
Deep breaths, everyone. You might lash out in anger if your child just died and someone accused you of killing him. That is the threat that everyone is talking about.
I'm not saying this makes it true, but I can certainly see saying harsh things if I were in that situation. Also, if this story is true, we are talking about someone in incredible pain, who is concentrating on their own feelings, not those of others.
Deep breaths. Peace. Wait. Give this time. Approach with calmness and compassion.
In response to the poster who commented that this blogger had gone to a restaurant an consumed a large amount of wine and the posted a review about it two days before she gave birth... those were actually two separate reviews by two separate people. I have posted the link here.http://www.diningcity.com/amsterdam/altmann/index_eng.jsp
This is why we need to be careful, mistakes can be made.
I've been thinking about this blog a lot and why #3 just feels off, and may it's possiblt that number three happened a while ago? maybe we aren't reading this in real time? which might explain the easy transition from 2 to 3?
There's definitely more to this story than what is being put up on the screen. However, the response from this community to the story as it's been told has been so wonderful, supportive, uplifting, all kinds of superlative words. It's inspiring, and no matter what is revealed or is not revealed about this particular case, I hope there is some comfort in that.
I agree with 1:05 pm. She said everthing that I think.
I cannot post on these threads anymore, because I'm apparently to dim witted to hit the anonymous button.
I hope its a lie because its too terrible to believe.
I wrote to the Down with Trolls site:
http://exposetrolls.blogspot.com/
They agreed it sounds suspicious, but it was hard to tell. They did say they found no birth or death records for any of the three. They also said they would continue to look into it. So if anyone knows anything more, that might be a good place to explore more questions.
I am of mixed mind on this. I hate feeling suspicious, and I do appreciate the outpouring of support the community has shown. I hate emotional fraud, though. I hope time will tell.
I am absolutely naive and tend to believe everything everyone says and I found that person's blog to be lacking verisimilitude. It's very sad.
I'm so glad others have commented on this. I've been worried about this couple, but very suspicious of them- especially this last death. I found it strange that she never posted about his birth, but then immediately posted and updated her blog following the death three days later. I also found her comment about being "grumpy about breastfeeding" a little strange, considering her son had passed away only a few hours before. Why even include that? The entire post giving the news of the death was a little bizarre, in my opinion.
I have yet to hear anyone comment who has either met her or her husband, or who know either one of them IRL.
I have had times writing on my own blog when I have thought, "Nobody's going to believe me." And yet, I have not had three losses- without explanation. If I had experienced three deaths in a row like this, I can only imagine that I would expect disbelief and doubt, especially from those that don't know me IRL. But their reaction has been the opposite, scorning any who have doubts.
I just wish I knew the truth about that particular blogger. I wish I could reassure myself and my friends that it isn't/wasn't true so that our pregnancies which were terrifying enough in the first place, given our previous losses are now just frightening beyond words. And hearing from a friend that the blogger has updated their facebook status with the news "they are crying their way across northern Europe" with a smiley faced icon at the end, seems singularly inappropriate.
How callous do we want to get? Blow up the photo of the gravestone to see if the names of her babies are on it? Ring her work to see if she answers or is on maternity leave? Compare photos of #3 to #2? These things have gone through my head and I feel twisted. Speaking to just one person who knows her IRL would surely explain and the rest of it we can put down to their own private coping mechanisms. I would both like and would not like to know.
I did, and yes, it has both of their names. Also, #2 looks just like the mom and #3 looks just like the dad. There are no pictures of #1 as is usually the case with tiny preemies.
This is a mess..I hate that it's even a question.
@10.15 - You can't see their names. I looked too.
@10:27 I also looked and couldn't get it clear enough to see names.
I think what made me stop and say hmm was how fast she went to her jeweler to add another diamond to their wedding bands.
@3:16 I thought the EXACT same thing!!
I belive that the people invovled are being honest if not nasty about it
I cannot fathom why anyone would make such things up. I just can't.
That being said, despite the fact that I have offered my support and posted a link to their story on my blog, I have my doubts and have wondered how it can be true.
I would love to know the truth.
I am in exactly in the same position as September 15 @ 9.48am. One foot in each camp.
Her latest post is insane. I really think she is lying. She lamented that it wasn't one of her sisters' kids. Really?? And she's also calling out everyone who has ever lost a baby but also has a living child. No one's pain can compare to hers!!! It's like she created the most painful situation she could think of for maximum sympathy.
And it sounds like she is threatening suicide. This is not going to end well.
I think she is actively seeking out controversy with her latest post.
Regardless of the truth of the matter, I've realized that sharing similar circumstances with a person doesn't mean you have any obligation to support them.
I don't like them. I think they are both quite strange. It doesn't mean they are liars though.
That latest post - the reiteration of the three miracle conceptions, the insistence that the doctors 'were all wrong', the organized post from the road, the attack on other parents of loss.
It just all reads like a lie now, and I don't think that's implanted in me because of all the quiet/anonymous/hushed questioning of it. It's just so over the top now that I can't doubt all those red flags anymore.
the woman needs help. true or not, these posts (attacks) are not healthy for anyone to read. wishing other peoples kids dead? even your own sisters? i mean that is just not on. and calling people out for not commenting anymore? clearly she's just desperate for attention and i seriously can't believe there are still so many there giving it to her. her readers are putting up with an awful lot, especially those with living babies and/or pregnant right now. i think anyone who has decided to pull their support does not need to apologize. this is the internet. people can read what they want, skip what they don't and skim over the rest. yes, even in deadbabyland. i'm so disturbed by all of this now.
I'm really disturbed at the amount of vitriol being spewed in her comments right now. I would never leave such a shit trollish comment on a babyloss blog, but telling someone to stab themselves in the ovaries or to crawl back in to their mother's womb and die? That really is hideous and triggering and all sorts of wrong.
It's not written by the blog owner, but it's certainly enabled by the tone of the post.
Seriously, if anyone ever left that kind of 'supportive' comment on my blog they would be blocked faster than they could hit the return key.
@6.01 AM I checked the profile of that particular comment and noticed they only had one profile view. I thought the blog owner had written it themselves to be honest.
I feel like reading that blog is like watching a horrible car accident happen in slow motion. Something is obviously terribly wrong but I am powerless to stop it.
Her blog speaks filth. She is vile. She is screaming for attention.
No body said they were worse off than her. She is essentially attacking everyone that reads.
How dare she write that about her sisters children. Shows she is capable of anything. Wishing other children were dead. Threatening people who question her.
This is a joke.
Because I was somewhat skeptical of all this to begin with, but still offered my support, then read these comments, I have to wonder if I would have come to the same conclusion about her latest post...?
That makes no sense, but I found myself reading her latest entry and just being sick with the anger she has towards everybody. How in the hell could you wish that one of you dead babies were your sisters dead baby instead? I may not have experienced 3 losses, but I have had one full term dead baby, and I will tell you, it is something that I would never, ever wish on anyone. And to wish it on her sisters? Wow.
And then to pretty much attack those bloggers that had living children when they lost their babes. WTF? We grieve too, but we have to be strong for our kids.
This is all starting to smell rotten to me.
I have never, ever, ever heard a Babyloss Mama wish it on someone else (especially a sister's baby, oh my God) or be so evil toward Babyloss parents who have other children. I can't help but think that if she REALLY knew what it was like to lose a child she'd never wish it on anyone.
She is sick and deranged. Even if she is telling the truth, I don't care and want nothing to do with her.
I think that they need to go home, if they are really on a trip, and Craig needs to check her into a mental facility, dead babies or not. I've had my doubts from the first post regarding the 3rd baby and honestly, was not that surprised to read about it. She seemed to set it up during the pregnancy.
The latest post, IMO, speaks volumes about her character. Who would dare to wish death on their own sisters' children, or anybody's children for that matter, when they know the pain it causes? What happened for her to lash out at parents of living children so viciously? I have two living children and suddenly, unexpectedly lost my third child. Yes, my living children make me get out of bed and they make me laugh, even in the darkest moments. But does she have any clue how hard it is to grieve and watch your other children grieve as well? I am so grateful that I have my other two, but that doesn't diminish the pain I have for the baby I lost.
She's screaming for attention. She is probably lapping up now that there are dozens of comments on her post. I think that either baby #3 never existed or he is still alive. I don't buy this story at all. As someone else said, this will not end well.
Regardless of truth, the latest post has just left me with my jaw on the floor. I can understand feeling abandoned as so many have walked away. I cannot understand the lashing out, the wishing ill and harm upon others, the hatred towards those with living children. I guess to a degree the blogger had expressed those types of feelings before this latest loss in comments and posts (and had always been somewhat of a poisonous personality within the community), but the negativity was always tempered somewhat with their shred of hope for their future.
A grief bully, vying to be the valedictorian of grief. If true, have they have the rawest of deals in life? Absolutely. But what good is there in bullying a community of women all hurting, all in pain, by invalidating and attacking their pain. Its not a grief-healing road I would choose for myself, and not a journey I wish to be a part of....and so I've stepped away, I've abandoned her. For my own sanity, I cannot let that in.
I'm breaking the rules here and posting as myself because I'm not interested in discussing the truth question, but I think this post from Angie:
http://stilllifewithcircles.blogspot.com/2009/09/self-preservation.html
really sums up everything I feel right now.
Jess
I'm posting as myself too, because it just feels time for it.
Regardless of truth and speculation, this situation is toxic. I've decided to treat this as I'd treat any other circumstance, person or conversation on the internet that sucks my faith away - I'm not going to fan those flames even if it feels justified, or even if it comes out of protectionism or reassurance. Once I hit 'publish your comment', of course. Starting... then.
What we need to protect is our collective trust in one another, which has been injured. Our faith in family-building. We need to be able to be raw and dark, yet also protect the courage and clarity of our friends who continue to grow babies. We need to help those mothers feel like the impossible is possible. We need to protect our kinship through of this strange and tenuous parenthood, in whatever form it may take. Not blow holes in it.
I vote for a holiday, as Angie's post calls to TTFC. And I'm not going to feel bad about it. I used to do this when world news would make me restless at night - I'd refuse to even look at paper bins on the way to work. No TV, no radio. It was a toxic fast. And sure, it means I'm somewhat disconnected. But I was calmer.
News holidays are an ostrich's response, sure. You're not aware of that latest bombing in Indonesia. But what can I do about bombings in Indonesia? Nothing, aside from being a productive and grateful and connected and compassionate human being in my own circles - and hope that those vibrations spill out in whatever way they can.
So much love to all of you.
Just to add, I'd talked about protecting faith in family-building - but that includes helping each other to accept our families exactly as they are, perhaps without children. The courage and clarity needed by babylost parents who move ahead with life after infertility... it's just as compromised by toxic behaviour and divisiveness online.
I need to go take a shower, and shake like a dog. Then maybe a cold beer. Then another couple of shakes. Then the holiday begins (brain exhales, heart concurs).
I went to bed last night feeling like a blowhard. Just came back to say that I didn't mean to sound prescriptive, or like I was speaking on behalf of anybody. That's just what I'm going to do.
You are beautiful Kate x
The whole blog has been deleted...
Now doesn't that just scream something to you?
.......Leaving readers with a shit load of questions. Fair questions I would have thought. I feel a bit cheated, really.
It's been made invite only; something told me to try adding Jet to the names in the blog title and I was right. I wasn't invited and I'm glad for that, actually. Like Kate, I'm ready to turn the page on this weird chapter in babylossland. She wrote before she changed it that she's taking space from writing, that it's not helping her healing or others. I'm glad for that, for all of us, Mirne included. Hopefully we'll all do some good healing.
https://www.blogger.com/blogin.g?blogspotURL=http%3A%2F%2Ffreyja-kees-jet-lovedsomuch.blogspot.com%2F
"The whole blog has been deleted...
Now doesn't that just scream something to you?"
Yeah, that people on the internet are cosntantly accusing her of a variety of things and demanding that all their questions be answered because dammit! They have a right to know.
You don't believe her, fine-you should be happy it's gone then. I don't know if I believe it or not, but it's it is real, imagine the pain and torment that's been added?
This entire this is a bloody cesspool made only more nauseating by those claiming to either help or trying to "discover/snoop/dig/suss out" what's really going on.
The whole blog has been deleted...
Now doesn't that just scream something to you?"
Yeah, that people on the internet are cosntantly accusing her of a variety of things and demanding that all their questions be answered because dammit! They have a right to know.
You don't believe her, fine-you should be happy it's gone then. I don't know if I believe it or not, but it's it is real, imagine the pain and torment that's been added?
This entire this is a bloody cesspool made only more nauseating by those claiming to either help or trying to "discover/snoop/dig/suss out" what's really going on.
I just feel compelled to comment...
I got linked to that blog through someone else. I at first of course was horrified, but as I read further I completely had doubts.
Then I thought maybe I only had doubts because the thought of something so horrific was too much for me to bear, and THEN I thought I was a horrible person for doubting. How could I be so mean?
But, as others have said...if I had JUST lost my THIRD child...I would be heavily sedated or completely out of my rational mind. There is no way on this earth that I would have the mental capacity to create tickers and monitor comments on my blog and update Facebook???? No.
Something is way off. All of us having the SAME weird feeling and instinct...? Definitely something odd and dark going on there.
I feel dirty and ashamed to have read any of this.
I hope any of you who have contributed to the pain of this woman and her family think long and hard about how you would feel to read these things if they were being written about you.
It's not about what you would or would not do if you had lost a third child - because unless you have, then you do not know what you would do or how you would act.
I thought this was a community of support and compassion. But obviously I was completely wrong about that. It makes me question any of the things I post on my own blog. When will I say the wrong thing or express the wrong opinion and feel this kind of wrath?
I don't believe that one kind of grief is more deserving of sympathy than another. Everyone needs support, love and understanding.
I think this is ultimately less about the truth now and more about the anger, hatred and threats of violence, both by the blogger in question and those who are still commenting. People shouldn't have to be subjected to that. People have turned away from her and it is little wonder. That said though, she's got more readers than ever before, therefore getting more support than ever before. However not everyone is going to put up with it.
This conversation is not helping anything or anyone. Please, everyone, stop. Let this go away.
No, Jen, I don't think it can go away at this point, nor do I want it to without some kind of resolution, because she threatened and belittled people! It's not harmless! I don't even care whether or not it's true; I care that she made everybody else's grief feel lesser, and that she threatened and yelled. That's not acceptable if we want this to continue to be a community.
I keep thinking about a quote I once heard: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt.
Kind of feels relevant here. It's true that no one is right to belittle or threaten, and all of that language by the blogger and some of her commenters turned me off from the whole thing. It is hurtful, and mostly to the person putting it out there. But it didn't make me feel less worthy, less valid. Nor did it make her anymore worthy of compassion or pity. Especially if that "compassion" takes the form of validating her aggressive energy. It didn't make hers a worse tragedy than anyone else's. Pain Olympics don't get any of us anywhere, and that's been an important thing for me to remember after my own loss, especially when people around me seem to be "complaining" about much "smaller pain" than my own. We're all here on our own paths, hopefully trying to do our best.
Hmmm, I'm not sure. I worked in Amsterdam for a time and it took a long while to get used to the Dutch. Their english is mostly lifted directly from films, pop songs etc and can be pretty colourful. They are also extremely direct and pride themselves on their 'let it be' attitude.
I wondered if this had all happened some time before and so the writing was thought out. I tried to start a blog about my loss and my husbands genetic bomb but it sounded so laboured and ..oh I don't know... brittle? that I stopped. I was in tears all the time, my emotions were everywhere and I was distraught. But when I started writing about it, it sounded as if I was writing a sterile annual report.
It makes you wonder...
@ 11.45am - she's actually Australian, but her family are Dutch and she lives in Amsterdam.
@11:50 am -- really? Because, although the English was very good, the blog didn't read like it was written by a native English speaker.
@ 11.53am - yes. definitely. although who knows at this point...
I am dutch and I was suspicious. I couldn't find a single mention of the childrens death in Dutch. Nor support no rumours nothing..... We arte a small coutnry 3 deaths to one family would also leave a trail in dutch I would guess... Suspicious for a lot of reasons
She is real. Her husband is real. Her losses are real.
I can understand people not liking the tone her blog was taking but nobody knows how they themselves would react in any given situtation unless they're in it, particularly one as horrific as the one that she finds herself in.
And to be publicly questioning her veracity is beyond cruel. Sure you have a right to question something/ someone if you have suspicions - but to do so this publicly, where she can easily come across all that is being said about her is truly awful, even if you're all being nice and anonymous about it - look at what you're writing about, look at what you're saying about someone who must be in the most unimagineably dark place.
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