Monday, September 21, 2009

all gone

There's a fascinating (and quite lengthy) discussion going on in the comments to one of the previous posts. If you'd like to read it, click on the link in the previous sentence, scroll down to the September 2009 comments, then, to read the rest, click on the word "newer," way, way down in the bottom right hand corner.

As you'll see, the discussion focuses on one particular blog which has recently been deleted,* though a brand-new, invitation-only blog with a very similar address has been created. (many thanks to the anonymous who figured this out)

If you don't want to expend any more time or energy on the issue, please just ignore this post. Because, look! Over there! Something shiny! But I have to admit, this is exactly the kind of thing that piques my ever-so-insatiable curiosity. What's your take? (feel free to comment anonymously, if you'd prefer).

Or, here's a question: have you ever deleted a post? If so, why? And can you imagine circumstances under which you'd delete your entire blog?



*And if you happen to possess the mad internetz skillz necessary to retrieve the deleted blog posts (and, no, when googling, I didn't see a document helpfully labelled cached), inquiring minds want to know.

edited to add: Luckily, a nice, yet nameless person was able to email me all (or at least most) of the deleted posts. Hence, here's your tip of the day: What happens on the internet, stays on the internet. Forever. Consider yourself warned.

74 comments:

Anonymous said...

Through my google RSS feed I can retrieve all of their posts dated back to April... so if anyone of you uses this feature you can probably also access the old posts too.

I'm not sure how I feel about that blog... if she's telling the truth I cannot even imagine the world of hurt that she is experiencing. But the amount of anger and hate towards blog readers is shocking.

If its all fake... then that is shocking too... so as many other blog readers have said... as much as I would like to know... its time to just let it go and move on.

after iris said...

I've accidentally published a post before I was ready and then deleted it, does that count?

It IS an interesting discussion, I'm disappointed in myself for finding it so compelling. I've tried to take a break from it but I just keep coming back to see if there are any more comments... and the latest one is pretty explosive and spot on really. I hold my hands up to any part I've played in the 'bloody cesspool'. There's no excuse, but I will just say that the nature of dead baby blogging lends itself to emotional over-investment... and actually the internet in general is full of these flamewars. They're not very pretty are they?

Anonymous said...

Wow. Just wow.

Anonymous said...

I've dealt with people like this before. She clearly wanted a specific kind of attention and was getting it until recently. And when people started to figure it out and not want to give her what she wanted, well then it's time to abandon ship, pack up, and hide out. Having a private blog now means she can invite anyone who is still sympathetic to her cause and feed off their comments.

It makes no sense to join a community only to lash out at them, and to brazenly insist that her pain is the most painful of all and no one could possibly ever have hurt as bad as her. Wishing death upon another person's child is a horrid horrid thing to do. Even if she wasn't lying and lost all three children, she needs some serious psychiatric help.

And while I agree everyone's pain is different, and everyone grieves differently, most people blog and read blogs about it because they feel a sense of community however shitty a premise it's based on, it's still a "place" you can go where you feel less alone. You know that others too have felt the pain of childloss.

It seems however that all she wanted was for people to pity her and feel bad that her loss was the worst possible loss anyone could ever experience. And when she stopped getting what she wanted well, seems like she got quite angry. Telling the truth or not, I believe she is deeply troubled.

One of my friends always used to say "Don't pity the pity whore." and while it's crass, it seems to me that that's what this particular blogger wanted was pity, and lots of it.

Aurelia said...

You can get things on archive.org, also known as the wayback machine.

You can get rid of old posts and old blogs by deleting them in a certain way, and yes there is code you can enter in a website to make sure it isn't archived, but you have to do that from the beginning, and it doesn't always work.

I haven't gone back to read those comments, and I might or might not. But if something really happened to me, and everyone accused me of lying and faking, I can imagine lashing out and saying lots of things. I think if you don't believe something, it might be better to just click away and ignore it. Just me perhaps....

niobe said...

Aurelia: My understanding is that it takes a while (as in a few months) for old posts to show up on the wayback machine. And, as you say, the pages might have been coded to prevent archiving.

But the wayback thingy is a totally awesome site and I recommend it to everyone.

Anonymous said...

not familiar with the blog you reference but can imagine just by the comments left here.

as for deleting posts? Yes. I have written when VERY depressed, clicked publish, and then after calming down removed the post because I just didn't want to see it any more. I am better now at not clicking publish on the hard stuff so swiftly. I was also asked to remove several posts where I referenced a no longer living relative. The person's ex wife took offense to my writing about this relative and I removed them mostly because it would get the ex wife off of my back.

Somewhere out there there are a few blogs that I walked away from and now no longer have the ability to delete. I like to think of them as just floating in space and out of reach. I certainly hope so!

Mrs. Hope said...

I'm curious about the situation in a terrible way - it seems too tragic to be real, and I don't want it to be real, but there's tragedy if it's false, too.

Yes, I have removed posts from my blog. I had a situation where nurses were reading, got upset by some particular posts and subsequently my doctor read parts of the blog. So I removed two posts. I left the blog up, but now I write somewhere else (with all the old posts there, too) with a pseudonym.

Tash said...

I don't know whether it's a case of more water under the bridge, or perhaps that I was upset at this particular blogger months ago for some poorly expressed comments I saw here and there (not on my blog, so don't bother combing) so I made my peace with things then, but I've been rather divested from the whole thing, regardless of it's veracity. Sure, I've been curious, but I've slept just fine, no angst, no hand-wringing, no paradigm shifting, no questioning. So I'm actually really surprised at how emotionally invested people are in this story. I really don't have an opinion as to whether that investment is a good or bad thing, I'm just . . . surprised.

Also? This whole saga has made me miss meg. Not sure if it's the whole losing three thing, or the frequent references to "dark," or the latest idea of a blog disappearing into cyberspace. I guess I wish a lot of new people had seen her deal with that, and maybe they'd have some different (less naive, more grounded) impressions about the universe. Or something.

This was way way more than I ever thought I'd say about this. I'm on the record.

Caro said...

OK now I'm really curious....

k@lakly said...

I'm clueless to the whole thing and am happy to stay that way. But, reading Tash makes me want to add that I miss Meg too. She was/is graceful and so quietly noble in her writing and her life. A real lady in the finest sense of the word.

P.S. I have been holding positive thoughts for you and your sister and of course the other 'little thing' that grows on. Update soon:)

Tash said...

Ok, someone just emailed me and I should clarify -- maybe my use of naive was not appropriate: Some of us have witnessed someone lose three daughters without the surrounding drama. It was dark and awful to be sure, but I think instead of making us all turn inwards and question how this tragedy affected us and our mindsets, we all turned outward and simply understood this is how the (fucked up) universe goes sometimes, and now we need to be supportive. (Clearly, vastly different people and situations.) I hope this saga doesn't make people turn their heads from raw and dark truth when it appears again.

Kathy McC said...

Whoa. I missed all of this. Never read this particular persons blog, either, so I guess I am out of the loop.

I only deleted two blog posts. One was something personal about my husband and he asked me to remove it. The other was about my broken vagina. And I figured that was kind of embarrassing so I deleted it after a few days. :)

Anonymous said...

Well now I'M curious... who is Meg?

chicory said...

well, when my marriage imploded and my wife used my blog as a way to try and hurt me, I ended up password protecting the entire blog and not giving anyone the password. I would have deleted the whole thing except that I had extensively documented my child's life on there and I wanted the chance to get those posts about her off the blog and into some other format. So I just locked the whole thing down. So, that's one reason to delete a whole blog that isn't attached to being a big fake. When the blog you poured so much time and attention and soul into suddenly gets perverted and used against you.

niobe said...

Anonymous @3:03

I was going to leave a link to Meg's old blog, but I see that she's deleted it. Anyway, I'm sure you get the general idea from the previous comments. I miss Meg too. Lots and lots.

Betty M said...

I read some of that blog but I never liked the tone. I felt that whatever my own grief history I would never have had enough to be legitimate in that blogger's eyes and I saw no reason to keep reading. I went back to say I was sorry at the last death as I was. I didn't feel it was a lie just she was "off" and I found it hard to find empathy enough to keep going back. Sounds like it was a wise move.

As to chances of it happening thrice, a series of well known miscarriage of justice cases here focused on the statistical likelihood of more than one SIDS case in one family and the result was that two consecutive SIDS cases were far more likely than 2 consecutive murders. This makes me wary of doubting simply because of numbers.

I haven't deleted anything from my excuse of a blog. I dont think I would have a problem doing so though. Deleting the whole of it would be very unlikely given that I am a pack rat by nature.

Beruriah said...

I miss Meg too. Wednesday will be two years since she (we) lost Survivorgirl.

Man I wish some of the stories I know are true weren't.

Jenni said...

i hope i never delete my blog. it's a record of a time in my life - happening now - that i believe i will consider to be precious one day. i have so little of my daughter, the blog itself has become a way i experience and connect with her.

that being said, i agree with the above commenter who said that they would shut down their blog if it were perverted and used against them. yes, if i suddenly felt that my blog were under attack, or being used to attack me or my family, i would pull up stakes no problem.

maybe that is how these bloggers feel. or maybe there is some other motivation. i don't think we'll ever really know. i think we'll each have to decide what we want to make of what we've read/heard/seen in these spaces.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Niobe. I hope that Meg is well. From what you've all said, she sounds pretty special.

I have never deleted a blog myself, but I used to write one with 3 of my friends (one of them is my own Meg, also a real pearl). One of the other girls deleted it, I think for fear that it's content (we were all in our early 20's when we started it and um... having lots of fun) might reflect poorly on her, now that she's a grown up with a professional reputation to protect. It's probably for the best, but I wish I could still read it. There was some funny stuff on there!

Anonymous said...

I don't think people are discounting the story simply because of the numbers. I think people are discounting the story because of the way it's being told, and certian things, just feel "off".

I like most of you, followed, and then, sometime, something just didn't sit right. Now I'm not sure if that is because something wasn't right, or maybe because she wasn't able to express her feeling well enough for others to understand. Either way, something about that just didn't feel right.

Now, here's where I get "ify". They are away on a "vacation" a time to heal, which is something I totally get, and can understand the need to just run away. However, her last post said she is writing from a boat/cruise, and I know from perosnal experience, that those things are extreamly hard to book last min, which is acourding to story, when this trip was planned. Also, if she is truly away on a trip, she is spending a lot of time, not only on her blog, but reading other blogs to know that people are thinking poorly of her. And on her vacation, she has time to delete the old blog, password protect and make a new blog? I just doesn't feel right to me.

If my three babies died, I would scream it from the roof tops, and if someone doubted my story, I would do my best to explain away. The more support the better. But to pack up and hide? Again, it juts feels off to me.

I keep checking Down with Trolls to see if they have come up with something either way about this story. But no matter what, it will not end well.

Jackie said...

I deleted my blog. A blog I loved and kept for over three years.

Someone very close to me took my words, twisted them, and used them against me. And I just didn't feel like my place was "MY place" any longer.

That being said, I now wish I just would have deleted some of the controversial posts, rather then the whole thing. Thankfully I was smart enough to save all my posts before deleting ;)

Anonymous said...

Being pregnant, I can't tell you have fucking relieved I am!

And yet, I feel so cheated. I almost sent them something. In fact, I spent half a day trying to figure out how to send something to the netherlands...how stupid was I?

LAS said...

I deleted a post once because someone left a really nasty comment that they didn't like to read my blog anymore because they thought I was an ungrateful terrible person. It really hurt my feelings. Rather than delete the comment, I just took the post down altogether. I couldn't believe anyone would be so cruel and hurtful when commenting on a post. I felt like posting back to the person - if you don't like me, don't read me then. Has anyone ever told you through a comment that they didn't like you?

Aurelia said...

Now I miss Meg too, and yes, now I am remembering it is the two year anniversary of SurvivorGirl's loss. And now I am sad...

Anonymous said...

I've never deleted anything from my blog yet - but honestly all of this mess just makes me want to delete my blog and never return.

Becky said...

I want to say, "I read the blog after number 3 and immediately had that sick 'This isn't real.' feeling."

But what I will say is this, I think (or at least this is how I feel) when I read someone's blog after having 2 losses myself, I can immediately tell which feelings or words or whatever is real. I feel like I've thought so much, grieved so much, cried so much, and felt like a monster for feeling that way for so long that I know, now, what 'typical' is like. The very last thing I would do on this Earth is judge anyone's grief, but it felt very off to me. She didn't seem 'like us.'

Except, I prayed for her. I cried for her. I told my family about her.

And I felt like the worst person for doubting her.

I sincerely hope that with that kind of pain, real or not, they are able to get some help from someone somewhere.

And, like the whole April Rose thing, sometimes I wish people would come out with an explanation if it is fake. They owe that much to us.

Kymberli said...

I miss Meg, too. Terribly so.

That is all.

Jana said...

aagh, i want to know who this is! there's a blog out there that i have been highly, highly doubting (despite I am loathe to have these thoughts) and i'm confused.

Jana said...

the netherlands just answered my question; i suspected correctly. i'm kind of relieved, i'm not the only one, as i felt bad for having those thoughts.

Anonymous said...

Jana - what was your question????

Bon said...

i miss Meg too. i remember the news coming in two years ago and my mouth gaping. but with horror and sorrow, not the shock that came with the most recent drama.

i think that was partly the grace and humanity of Meg's voice. but also partly that there was a reason, in Meg's case, to attach to. an utterly unfair, brutal, rotten reason, but a reason. whereas the core of the most recent drama is the shock and reasonless-ness of it all. it's threatening in its random, subsuming horror. it's a hope-swallowing, no-safe-corner-ever kind of story, in a way Meg's was not. it's not just the number, i don't think. it's the randomness, the threat, the absoluteness.

and perhaps it was concocted to be that way, by someone working out their own relationship to grief and bad luck.

Anonymous said...

I'm just curious if any of her followers have been invited to her new blog?

Anonymous said...

I just don't believe her. I think either baby #3 never existed, or was born years ago and is alive. Actually, my gut feeling is she has one living child and one dead baby. period. not 3. certainly not 3 late losses. and not something recent. I think it has all been a revisiting/writing exercise. and munchausen-by-proxy-via-internet for sure. and I just can't read those kinds of blogs. It's not good for my positive, sunny disposition. I turned away and stopped reading her the moment I thought she was lying. and now I don't even give it one thought unless Niobe racks it up again...

Rachel said...

I deleted part of a post once. The real name we were thinking of giving my son. I didn't want my family to google it and find my blog. Of course, I know it isn't truly gone, but it would be difficult to find again being that they don't actually know it is there.

Anonymous said...

@8:16 just curious as to when you first thought she was lying?

My Reality said...

I guess a lot of us miss Meg.

Anonymous said...

And a lot of us sadly don't know who Meg is. Feels like there is a lot of reminiscing here about the "good old days" of babyloss blogging but some of us are very new to this. We've entered this realm at a time where things aren't all friendly and loving. A time of much darkness and anger. I hate how much this incident has rattled our little safe haven on the internet whether the story be true, false or somewhere in between.

Julia said...

I miss Meg too, all the time. And I was just thinking earlier today about how it's just about two years since Survivorgirl died.

For those who don't know, who missed the gem that was the para.graph, Meg and D lost four daughters in three pregnancies, and had a number of miscarriages besides. And of course she was in a dark place, before that last loss and after. But, like Bon says, there was always grace.

It's not the number that makes this latest story doubtful. It's just not. But you know what I resent a whole lot, especially today? It's the fact that this mess makes me think about my friend Meg in this way, as "the worst case." She deserves better than that. Because she is more than that, and because she herself didn't like to be thought of in that context. And yet, she is the counterpoint for so many of us in this current situation.

But because Meg is not what happened to Meg, I'd like to go on record here as saying that among the many things I miss about the para.graph is Meg's art, and among the many things I miss about Meg is how genuinely quirky the girl is, her little black heart and all.


Back to the latest thing. Like Tash, I had been stung earlier. Kicked by a comment that made my head spin and heart twist, big time pain olympics. I guess processing that made me better at dealing with the indiscriminant firestorm that was the second to last post on the now deleted blog. But I think I also get why/how many are feeling now, dealing with the whatifs and the cruel regardless.

Which Box said...

I am all kinds of confused by this blog, and I'm happy to be out and not anonymous. I was never invested, didn't even know of it til the hint from Niobe. So I read back a few weeks, started at the beginning and read forward a few months, and yeah. I'm as stumped as anyone else. Something about it does not ring true. Not the numbers, as anonymous above said, but just something off.

That said, this is where it gets confusing. I too miss Meg. She epitomizes grace and class and suffered far far too much. (and thanks for the two year reminder of survivor girl - I had not realized the date).

I think, even with her little black heart, Meg would be the first person to say don't use her grieving process as a standard to hold for someone else. Right? Don't we hate that? When people IRL tell us we're not grieving the right way? If that blogger's story is true, or even mostly true, she must be crazed with grief and rage and god knows what else, and so I've never gotten all worked up by the 'threats' and 'wishing other's kids dead.' Not something you typically see, but good grief, if the blog was accurate, she's what, not even a month post partum?

What she types does not ring true. That doesn't mean it isn't true. So, confused. She's out here (or was out here) with her real name and details people can track, apparently (her work).

Anonymous@4:12 and Becky both raised the point of exposing trolls. I too check Down With Trolls to see if they've picked it up, and the only thing I saw from Niobe's last post was someone contacted them and they said they did not find birth or death records. But given the other countries involved, maybe not any sort of evidence. Who knows. Like Niobe, I am insatiably curious, but it's just that, curiosity.

I've never deleted anything, but I think of it often. I have some raw stuff up there that makes me feel very vulnerable should anyone IRL find it.

I'm more intrigued by people like Antigone, who can delete huge chunks and then seemingly disappear. I couldn't pull off that type of disappearing act. And to get back to the original issue, somehow I think the invitation-only blog is not quite the last we'll her. I feel like a gawker - that insatiable curiosity. Whether the story is true or not, there is a real person there, one who is clearly troubled, and who I do have sympathy and empathy for. I'd just like to know what more precisely I am sympathizing with/for, you know?

HereWeGoAJen said...

Whether the blog in question is telling the truth or not, this discussion is just making things worse. Either we are making someone feel even more terrible or we are adding fuel to a fire. Everyone, please just take a step back. This discussion is a lose-lose.

Which Box said...

@9:34, it does feel like 'good old days' as weird as that is to type. I was really surprised, in reading comments on the questionable blog, of how many bloggers I did not know at all. At how much this seems to have rocked baby loss land, and I had no clue. CLC actually made a comment on one of the posts that said bloggers tend to congregate in their 'class' for want of a better word, and it's so true, and that also fascinates me. I think a lot has to do with being in the same place at the same time with a group of new bloggers. And, I think blogging - the volume of posts - makes it harder to read through archives and really get to know a blogger, as much as you can, through archives. It seems easier when you've been following along.

In any case, I'm terribly sorry this has rocked what is, was, should be a safe haven. For the lot of us, that might be the most tangible tragedy.

Anonymous said...

I, too, was awed by the changes to the blog in question almost immediately. How odd, I thought... to have your act so together when you must be out of your mind. And if in the states, that baby would have been monitored continuously. It just seemed too matter-of-fact. I couldn't believe it.

That aside, it's hard to see a strong, supportive community feel the pain of questioning one of their own... or not one of their own (?), as the case may be.

And Meg.... with the little archive.org gift... if someone has an original link? Is that terrible to ask?

Anonymous said...

I would delete a post if it turned out to be, instead of just controversial, unintentionally really offensive to a number of people.

I seldom describe my loss in detail over the internet. The truth really does sound like I made it up. when I do speak of it, I tend to downplay it. Years ago, I remember going to the infant loss support group and having everyone stare disbelievingly when I described what had happened, which also happened to involve multiple losses. It did feel almost like I was competing somehow, and that just felt really super icky. So I avoid it. But sometimes I think my vagueness sounds just as flaky as the drama.

painted maypole said...

i did, as you know, go briefly private, but I do try to keep in mind that anything i put out there is permanent.

even comments, as there are sites that track those. which I found disconcerting.

Aurelia said...

Just to explain about Meg's blog and our questions--I think it's not because we are trying to exclude others or go on about the good ol' days, that we are talking about her, and it's not because she is the worst case scenario. She isn't. I often told her that when I encouraged her to go to my support group. I actually personally know women who have had far more losses than her or this other blogger, and all of them at 35 weeks plus, or as neonatal deaths. It happens. All the time.

I keep thinking about Meg because she is gone, and her blog is gone, (not even on the wayback machine, crap, no the internet isn't forever Niobe...) but also because many of us have no idea how the story ended.

My friend Manuela for example, closed her blog, after she decided to live child free after many IVFs and many pregnancy losses, but some posts are still there, and she is still on Facebook. And I know she is happy now somewhere.

But other than a few people she emails with, or sees, Meg is gone, and lots of people read her, so it feels kind of odd, like a hole. Is she happy being child free? Is she child free? I loved her art and photography. I'd love to see them, but I don't know where to even go to see a gallery show.

I have to admit I'm starting to wonder if Antigone is ok. That too, feels odd, like hey maybe she won't blog much, but she spoke to lots of bloggers and now---where is she?

I get that some people will blog less when they are busy, (like me!), but I don't think I'll ever disappear. And it kills me when you all do.

Thalia said...

Well, I guess I hope it was a fake because the story was just so AWFUL it's been haunting me ever since I came across it last week or so when someone directed us to it to give sympathy. I didn't pick up the false note but then I am Mrs gulliable and always tend to believe people about pretty much anything.

I've never deleted a post, but I have edited for clarity. I tend to edit before the post happens rather than afterwards.

angie said...

Honestly, I think we should be talking about this as a community, not the veracity of it. I think it is besides the point, but I think the bounds of decency in this blog. I think people are invested in this story, because they are invested in this community. I don't think it is naive or ungrounded to trust someone who joins a grieving community with a tragic story and to give them some unconditional support. Most of us aren't reeling because her story is too dark, or we simply cannot deal with how shitty the universe is, I think we are reeling because if someone is threatening people, or belittling someone else's grief, it fundamentally destroys our sense of safety, our trust, and the whole point of our community. Here is the one place where we wear our hearts on our sleeve and show our vulnerability in a way that we simply cannot in our real life. It needs to be a safe environment to do that.

My baby died less than a year ago, and I have only begun watching the ebbs and flows of this community. People getting pregnant, deleting their blogs, having babies, starting up their blogs again, the dramas, the second losses...When she lost her third baby, though I had done this lip service about random chaotic shitstorm of the universe, I felt the same sort of fear of the early weeks of my loss. Three babies. Three different causes. It is a lot to process. It made me gasp at the possibility that I could be facing another full term unexplained loss if I got pregnant again. But those losses settled in, I became reacquainted with the unsettling truth of the universe. From my point of view, when the doubts came in, I didn't even really feel betrayed by the possibility of untruth. To me, it is not even the point. Everyone has their truth that could be far from reality. She is a woman suffering. But when she and her husband began threatening people, wishing other specific people's babies had died instead of hers, comparing griefs, discounting the very people who were there to support her...I just felt like I had to be an advocate for this community rather than a supporter of one woman who may or may not have lost three babies. The needs of the community as a whole outweigh her needs. So my emotional investment was not in her, but the way the story had affected these other people I have grown to care about. I read a lot of blogs for LFCA, and I noticed the steep sharp decline in blog posts, and the incline of people closing up shop. Where was the community going? Why were they hiding? Why aren't they talking anymore? I began asking people I knew who said they retreated. They said they didn't feel their grief was valid. They said the blog world was dragging them down with too much negativity. They said they felt unsafe. They were afraid.

All I can say is that some of us don't have the luxury to walk away from this community right now. We just need to make it safe here until we are not too raw to walk out into the sun.

Anonymous said...

Bravo, Angie. Just wish I had the balls to come out and go on the record with my comment. But I do feel scared in the blog world now, and I am happy to hide behind anonimity for the time being. (And anyway, Niobe said we could). No shame in that, despite what others may suggest.

Tash said...

Angie, I get what you're saying. A few points:

Anona@4:46 makes my point entirely. I think in this case fear and truthiness have inextricably intertwined with one another. When I say what I do, I am not faulting the readers, but the story/storyteller because 4:46 is what it's come to for many. And when I say I wish people at this particular juncture in their own stories had witnessed what we had, I mean that with utmost sincerity: we got a bad story, but delivered gracefully. In a sense, the fear was enveloped by the unfathomable truth. No one ran or shut down their blogs, there was no internal cage rattling about fear. If anything, we were all delivered a dose a practical fear, a constant reminder. If the reaction has been as dire as you say for this particular story, I worry a bit for the next one.

To those who are thinking these are three distinct cases, they may in fact not be. Take for example: Craig and his wife have a daughter. Daughter dies rather inexplicably a month later. They are told this is random, possibly a genetic mutation, chances are high this will never happen again. They go on to have a second child, Jon, who also dies a month later. At this point they discover a similar funky thing happening in the lungs, and decide that this is indeed genetic, and most genetic things are recessive. Craig remarries, he and new wife have a child, child dies almost two months later. Now they know what to look for and doctors conclude, sadly too late, that this is a dominant genetic disorder carried by the father. The actual gene is yet to be found. This is a true story you can read more about here. There are also genetic conditions that make babies more susceptible to certain diseases. I have often wondered if the blogger's children aren't suffering from something similar, and she's just cursed with poor medical advice and a caustic personality.

Finally, I also see where those of us who've been around longer maybe feel a bit more settled or something, but I don't think there's an obligation for anyone to read anyone. There is, as many of you know, a sort of alternate babyloss community composed of women who are quite fundamentalist christian, and their big bloggers tend to get 200-400 comments per post. Incidentally, they had their own bit of blog scandal that Niobe wrote about here. Anyway, point being, I occasionally read over there but seldom comment, and I have no idea if they read me. I know we all have some common readership. I don't dislike these people; they're excellent writers and artists, many of them. We just have different viewpoints that don't necessarily speak to each other on a daily basis. I don't think people should be compelled to read anyone, and I certainly don't think people should beat themselves up for quitting a blogger who diminishes and belittles their grief. This is pretty much why I dropped this particular person quite some time ago.

I guess I'm a bit confused by terminology like "negative" and "afraid." Did they give you any answers? Are they afraid we'll question everything now? Are stories where people lose three babies "negative?"

Anonymous said...

There are lots of "us" who've stopped writing or even deleted our blogs or disappeared. For the record, I miss Karen from Naked Ovary, Laura from Johannes Ghost, Jill from Thomas woz 'ere, Alysse from Julian's room, WTF, Lorem, Antigone... especially Laura (and Justin) and Lorem... It is sad to see blog friends come and go, but the truth is 'This isn't real life, it's the internet'... so it's par for the course I'm afraid...

after iris said...

Tash,

I can't speak for Angie, but I will speak for myself, if that's OK.

I'm supposedly taking a blogging break right now. I say supposedly because, well, as you can see I'm completely rubbish at it and have commented relentlessly since my self-imposed ban began!

I think I'm one of the people Angie is talking about.

For me it's not the content of the story that I consider negative and I wasn't afraid for myself i.e. I didn't think someone would 'come after me' either literally or figuratively. It doesn't make me more or less worried that same fate might await me. For me the negative was the violent language used and the fear was that continuing to read it would trigger a whole mess of personal issues that I have around violently expressed emotions.

So I thought I would slip away for a bit. Then when people like me were called out... well it just pissed me off, really. Nothing noble about it, I was just pissed off. So I kind of formalised my break, so that there was no expectation that my support would be there or could be found lacking in some way.

You're right, we don't have any obligation to support other bloggers, and we don't have to like each other just because we've shared circumstances. However, there ARE people I like a great deal here. People I follow and support and who do the same for me. I don't want them to go away. I love them. I want them to post as and when they like without having to second-guess or apologise for themselves or their experiences.

I don't think we're disagreeing here, by the way. I think all the points you've made are good ones. My motivation for engaging in this whole discussion is pretty selfish, because the truth is I want this community to be a good place for me. I don't want to have to leave.

Of course, if the doubt and dissent hadn't sprung up in Tru Confessionz then the negativity engendered by this particular blog wouldn't have become nearly so widespread. But it did and it has, so I'm glad that Angie is attempting to reclaim the 'safe space' that places like Glow, Stirrup Queen and Names in the Sand are at the heart of.

Tash said...

Got it. Thank you for clarifying. I get that. I think all of us take breaks from time to time for different reasons (just realized I haven't posted in weeks, ah well) and I'm sorry you were called on the carpet for that. Didn't realize. I don't think we're disagreeing either. I'm just a bit curious to know why there seem to be a different set of reactions to this.

Julia said...

An interesting discussion, Tash and After Iris. I would have to concur on much, but not all. In particular, I disagree that the Tru Confessionz fostered negativity, or made it any more widespread. If anything, I believe that thread allowed a number of people to exhale and calm down, just by virtue of realizing that they (we) weren't alone in thinking/feeling what it was they (we) were thinking and feeling. Which, in my case at least, was the very same deep protectiveness of the community. For me it was taking shape of feeling frantic that I may be the only one who can see the iceberg, and wondering what the hell was I supposed to do about that. Knowing that many others saw it too helped me feel that the community would be ok, eventually. That if my worst fears turned out to be true, that there would be a number of us ready to catch those who would fall, shaken to the very core by such a discovery.

after iris said...

Actually Julia, that's a really good point.

I think I was kind of projecting my guilty feelings on the whole thread.

leanne said...

I read the blog in question once or twice before the third loss, but for whatever reason just didn't click with the writing/blogger so I didn't go back after that.

While part of me is rather curious about the hows and whys, etc., I think turning the focus of the discussion to the community is a good thing. This community is what keeps me coming back.

angie said...

Tash, I think AfterIris did a good job of summarizing what people said to me when I asked. No, it isn't dark or negative because of the three losses, per se, it was the violence in her words, calling people out who didn't comment, comparing grief. It started with one despicable troll comment--absolutely not her doing--and spiraled into a very ugly dark place quickly. Violence, threats and cursing someone's fertility sort of became normalized in the comments section. I am personally not comfortable with that language. In terms of the fear, someone said they were afraid of people commenting at their blog in such a nasty, violent way. I'm not, but that is why I am not writing anonymously.

Staci said...

I saw a link to their website the day the 3rd baby died. I beleieve in first impressions and first instincts. I first thought that either she had something to do with the deaths or she was a liar.


either way I knew something wasnt right

Anonymous said...

I miss Meg and I never even knew her. And I have no idea about this other blog because I can't access it for some reason...but I think I'm ok with that after reading all the comments. Sending good thoughts your sister's way.
allypally

Karin said...

My head is all over the place after this catch up. I don't get loads of time to read all the blogs I'd like to read so I find it amazing that 1. I actually know the blog mentioned and have offered my support and 2. I visited Niobe's blog today and caught this post about it. I've spent kind of a long time catching up.

At first, I felt quite dismayed to read about the blog in question and also, to be honest, to read some of the responses. I guess I can only respond from my point of view. I do think it is important to acknowledge that one can't know how one would respond to consecutive deaths. It's just impossible to know.

Anger is a particularly difficult and damaging emotion. Controlling it during a time when life is unbearably out of control takes enormous effort. I don't know about this couple in question, I hadn't spent much time at their blog. I hadn't read the latest entries, the descriptions sound excruciating. I do know that I have thought my own nasty thoughts, not because I wanted to but because my anger had to work them out to get to the other side. I'm not proud of that but it's the truth. I had to rage before I could evolve. The difference is I drew the line at sharing this unattractive dark side with only a few select online friends not everyone.

It sounds like the anger on this couples blog has been like a bomb blast. As bereaved persons, our first obligation is to ourselves and if another blogger is attempting to sabotage our own self-preservation, then it is absolutely reasonable to step away. As a whole, I believe the community will and can survive this and become stronger for it. I believe this because this community is of great importance to many people who are navigating their own survival of catastrophe.

I know it will always come as a shock to the newly bereaved that there are people on the internet who will take advantage of them through being a fraud or through unreasonable demands. I don't know if there are any links to blog posts or articles for new bloggers so they are aware. Maybe everyone has to experience it for themselves to believe it. I don't know. Perhaps I should write my own post about it.

Anonymous said...

I never thought Antigone was genuine. Or at least, her losses may have been, but her writing was highly stylised and, in my opinion, a stretch of the truth at least.
I was never particularly interested in her but I was shocked at how brutally she cut off at the knees people who had supported her the whole way through. I read some actual hurt in the comments after her last post. Strange.

Anonymous said...

Interesting you mention Ant.igone, anon 11:20. She and I were emailing as she was going to send me some stuff for my friend's baby (who has subsequntly died, sadly), abruptly stopped the email flow and dumped the blog. It was really weird.

Anonymous said...

I happen to believe the story was fake, however I did want to comment on one issue that came up several times. People said that what made them suspicious was that she said she wished something bad happened to her sister's kids instead of hers, and that they'd never heard a babyloss mom say such a thing. I have. Heather Spohr said it about Maddie. She said that if she could keep Maddie in the place of another child dying, she'd do it in a heartbeat without even thinking, and no one would be safe, not even people she knew and loved. No one called her out on that. So yes, there are many, many issues here that add to something I can't buy, but that particular one was something that struck me as deep seated anger that COULD have been the result of grief.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad someone brought up Antigone. I stopped believing everything she wrote when her husband supposedly went Mr. Hyde. It was the way she wrote it ... like a suspense novel.

Aurelia said...

Oh lord, this was NOT the intent at all of what I wrote about wondering where Antigone went.

To be clear, several people met her in person. Had lunch with her. They knew all the details. So did I, even the ones not on her blog.

She is real. And she is quite likely busy being a single mom. I'd just love to hear more, that's all.

Anonymous said...

I'm the one who brought up
Antigone. So what if people met up with her? I know IRL someone who made up reams of stuff and had all fooled for a LONG TIME. And that was someone who was part of our group of friends - we met up weekly or so. It happens.
I was abused by an ex. And I have doubts about some of the things that were written. I had doubts about a lot of things on her/his blog. If she's as go getting, self-sufficient, ambitious and tough as she portrayed herself to be, she won't mind reading this.

Anonymous said...

My her/his was tongue in cheek.

Anonymous said...

In the Sophocles play, Antigone kills herself. Niobe is hung up on all this Greek myth stuff too. Have Antigone and Niobe ever been seen in the same room together?



Just joking.

Bobbie said...

Niobe - I came across this blog through a number of different blogs I've been reading recently and know of the blog that you all are referring to.

A friend of mine is the particular bloggers friend in real life from way back when. And her story is totally and utterly true. Nothing about her losses is made up.

Anonymous said...

But Bobbie, who are you? I mean that's the point here, none of us really know, do we? We're just all taking each others word for things. Still not convinced on parts of the blog in question. And now that it is gone, I think most of my questions will remain unanswered.

Bobbie said...

Anon - yep it occurred to me when I posted my comment that none of you all would have come across me and that there is absolutely no reason for anyone to believe me because who the hell am I anyway but ok.

I know what I'm saying is true and that am not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here and my only reason for posting the comment was that I felt (whatever anyone else's opinion of the blogger is) was to try and put to bed the idea that she had lied about something as horrific as losing three babies.

Anonymous said...

Whoa - I guess I was on a break also because I'm totally floored by the discussion of said blog. I read the blog and grieved for the family. I tend to take everything that people say on the blogosphere to be true. I suppose I am naive. Who would make up the kind of pain we have all endured? Now I know why my blog kept getting so many hits of people looking for said blog.

Kami said...

Oh, the drama! I must admit, I would find reading the blog fascinating.

I hope Meg is happy. I miss her too.

Geohde said...

I had wondered when I noticed the blog in question was deleted. If genuine, the situation is horrifying, and it's no wonder she's as irrational as the stories seem to say.

On the other hand, even if it's not all true, it's very sad anyway, isn't it?

Personally, since nobody can ever win this sort of war, I plan to let it be.....

g